Page images

(Cat. No. 756). A miniature of Arne was exhibited at the Guelph Exhibition in 1891 (Cat. No. 1051). There is a mezzotint engraving of Arne by Humphrey, after Dunkarton. G. F. R. B.

MR. MORLEY AND ST. JUST (8th S. ii. 345).– Mr. Goschen may have been reading Macaulay's essay on Barère, especially that passage where, referring to St. Just and other leaders of the Committee of Public Safety, he says:—

"To raise funds by spoliation is not statesmanship.

The real statesman is he who in troubled times keeps down the turbulent without unnecessarily harassing the well-affected, and who, when great pecuniary resources are needed, provides for the public exigencies without violating the security of property and drying up the sources of future prosperity."-Macaulay's Miscellaneous Essays,' Popular Edition, p. 312.


[ocr errors]

J. R. M.

"NON, MONSIEUR, NOUS NE TIRONS," &c. (8th S. ii. 345). Whilst perfectly willing to admit the exceptional courtesy of the French nation and the valour of her troops, I wish to express my opinion that the reason why the French soldiers did not fire first at Fontenoy was purely one of tactics, as the following argument, I think, will prove :In 1745 the muskets used were heavy, cumbersome weapons, very inaccurate at any distance over one hundred yards, and requiring considerable time to load and prime. Now, assuming two regiments of opposing infantry advancing in line towards one another with loaded arms, carried at "the shoulder," and fixed bayonets, on arriving at about one hundred or one bundred and fifty yards, both bodies would probably receive the order to halt, and then would begin a pretty little game of


The commander, say, of A would order his regiment to fire, and would then have to consider whether he should wait for his men to load again, or at once advance with empty muskets and charge B. In either case, B has an immense advantage if the troops composing it are brave and well disciplined. It will have lost some men, it is true, from the first, but distant, fire of A, yet its commander, having advanced it a short distance to clear its front from the casualties, can either await the charge of A, and pour in a deadly volley when it is but a few paces off, and so break its advance and spoil its formation, or, if the commander of A should prefer to remain stationary, so that his command can reload, B can advance a short distance, halt, fire a volley, and charge, before the men of A could " recover ramrods,' "prime," and "make ready." Not only would the men of A be confused and almost powerless, but, owing to their close proximity, the fire of B would be most destructive. Besides, the men composing it would have their warlike spirit thoroughly roused

[ocr errors]

to avenge their comrades struck down by the first fire of A.

In 1745, as in 1892, the great test of fire discipline was the restraint it placed on young soldiers to prevent them from wasting ammunition at long ranges, and to reserve their fire until the enemy comes within the deadly zone.

did at Waterloo, where his infantry squares reWhat the French did at Fontenoy Wellington served their fire until the French cavalry were almost upon their bayonets.

highly disciplined troops such as the French had at The tactics of B could only be followed with Fontenoy, where it must be remembered they had the best of a hardly fought battle.

I may write on this topic, if not with authority, yet with some knowledge, for I first learnt my "firing exercise” in March, 1860, with the muzzleloading Enfield rifle, and well remember the tedious operation of loading and capping, so different from the simple movements of the beautiful Martini-Henry with which, thirty-two years later, I this year gained the marksman's badge in the London Rifle Brigade. WALTER HAMILTON.

S. i. 109, 198, 339, ii. 378).-The copy of An "CANARY BIRD," AN OPPROBRIOUS TERM (8th Answer to a certain Libel' from which I quoted is in my own library, and I do not know of any other; perhaps only because I have never gone in from Fiji, I verily believe I should feel tempted to quest of one. If MR. J. S. UDAL did not hail let him have the loan of the little quarto of upwards of 200 pages in which he is interested; although I may boast that I have gone far towards acquiring "the real art of book keeping" as set forth in a recent number of Punch: "Never to lend." Any inquiries which MR. UDAL may choose to make of me I will do my best to answer. I fancy' An Answer to a certain Libel' is not very I thought I gathered so much from some correspondence I had years ago, with Mr. Edward Arber, when he announced his inclusion of the Marprelate Controversy literature in "The English Scholar's Library."



REEDS (8th S. ii. 327).-Sir William Gell obtained writing-reeds in Attica. Byron found "plenty" of them in Athens in 1810-11. I had two or three of them once, in a brass case with an ink-pot at the end of it, which I picked up in Cairo, and which had been used by some taxcollector in Ismail's time. I have found none nearer home. No doubt owing to liberal use, the reed-pens in my brass case proved past further service. W. F. WALLer.

KING'S PLAYS IN SUMMER (8th S. ii. 228).— The heading ought to be "King Plays," but I do not understand the plural. The King play, or King game (sometimes written Kyngam, Kyng

[ocr errors]

ham, or Kyngyng), was the pageant or miracle play Mr. Thomas Watts had proved, to his own satisof the Three Kings of Cologne,' which was given faction, at any rate, the Mercurie to be a forgery at Newcastle as late as 1599. (See Brand's of 1766 or thereabouts, therefore Mr. Watts was 'Popular Antiquities,' notes to "Morris Dancers" indubitably right, and every other authority, before and "Whitsuntide.") Notices of the performance and since, as indubitably wrong. My opponent, of this pageant at different places (Salisbury not who appeared to claim the right to sling ink" ex included) are to be found in the introduction to cathedra because, although he wrote himself down the 'York Plays,' appendix ii. The pageant of a contemporary of Mr. Peter Magnus, he had yet 'Kynge Robart of Cicyle' was given at Chester in not lived long enough to know the difference 1529, but I do not know if this would be called a between a newspaper and an annual register, had king play. Perhaps some other reader will be the grace to subside, and the matter ended. Now, able to supplement my information. as one out of due time-though, but for circumstances, over which not I, but an oculist, has had control, I should have seen him sooner-comes R. B. P. with an "I too, please." Well, let me recommend R. B. P. to make closer acquaintance with the Mercurie than is to be got in the "editorial column of the Globe." Then, one of two things will happen: either R. B. P. will find, say, a certain reference to the "courtesie of Polyphemus" too racy of the future British Solon and of Buchanan-of George, s'entend-to give up for a wilderness of Wattses, or he will justify the application to himself of the remark Turner once made about the vetturino. W. F. WALLER,

105, Albany Road, Camberwell, S.E.


CITIES THAT ARE COUNTIES (8th S. ii, 167, 251, 373). There is an admirable historical résumé of this subject in Sydenham's 'History of Poole,' published at Poole, 1839, p. 181. Poole was created a separate county, under the style "the County of the Town of Poole," by royal charter, 10 Elizabeth, dated June 23, 1568.

Basingfield, Basingstoke.


HERALDRY IN FRANCE (8th S. ii. 189, 277, 297). -I have a work entitled "Archives Nobiliaires Universelles, Bulletin du Collège Archéologique et Héraldique de France, Publié sous la direction de M. de Magny, Secrétaire général du Collége," imp. 8vo., Paris, 1843. It contains full information as to the constitution and work of the Society"Extrait des Statuts," "Séance Annuelle," "Liste des Membres," &c., besides several articles, all of which point to its having no official status. I presume this is the Society mentioned by SEBASTIAN in the last reference on this subject. My impression is that this Marquis de Magny is dead, and that the Society does not now exist. The only entry of its publications in Gatfield's new index refers to it as "in progress" in 1862.


KITCAT (8th S. ii. 84, 237).—Thomas Hearne states, under date Dec. 6, 1705, that "the Kit Cat Club came to be called so from one Christopher Catling (a pudding pye-man), with whose puddings and conversation the first founders of the society were extremely well pleased" ("Reliquiæ Hearnianæ,' vol. i. p. 74, second edit., 1869). There is a note on p. 18 of Mr. Henry Morley's edition of The Spectator' (G. Routledge & Sons), in which Christopher's surname is given as Cat. The name Kitcat appears in the 'Oxford University Calendar,' 1878.

[ocr errors]


"THE ENGLISH MERCURIE' (8th S. ii. 225).— In a letter which appeared in the St. James's Gazette, over my name in full," I cited the English Mercurie as practically the oldest newspaper, and in the same columns I subsequently disposed of somebody's contention that, as the late

SHAKSPEARE AND NEWTON (8th S. ii. 27, 90, 356).-MR. WARD's reference to Michael Angelo and his chisel reminds me of a sonnet by that great artist, in which he says:—

Hid in the marble, there already lies Whate'er the greatest sculptor can design: He only sets it free from its rude shrine, Whose hand works out what intellect supplies. This seems to me to express the true function of genius, the bold original conception, and the patient gestation required for its maturity and birth. Of course, I do not suppose that the whole truth lies in the aphorism, "Le génie n'est autre chose qu'une grande aptitude à la patience," as Buffon put it in his discourse on his reception into the Academy, or as Carlyle put it in his Glasgow address; but it is certainly a condition without which genius would often be fruitless.

In comparing such men as Newton and Kepler, we have in the one an example of genius plus patience; in the other a lower order of genius, with such an inexhaustible supply of patience that he could waste seventeen years in guessing, often most absurdly, until at length he guessed correctly. Newton, on the other hand, held in his mental grasp all the conditions of the grand problem, and was willing to wait during long years for those numerical data which the hodmen of science supply.

When Coleridge placed Kepler on a far higher intellectual level than that of Newton, he must have been under the influence of a more than usually strong dose of opium. And when MR. WARD would prefer to be Coleridge rather than

Newton, he may be congratulated on not having
the power to realize his choice. I should, however,
be glad to be referred to the passage in Newton's
works in which he "professed to find nothing in
poetry." I know that Mr. Ruskin professes to find
nothing in science, and everything in poetry, but I
was not aware that Newton was so eccentric on the
other side.

Highgate, N.

CHARLES LAMB AND LORD TENNYSON (8th S. ii. 206, 356).-Compare François Coppée's charming little poem, 'L'Horoscope,' in which a fortuneteller is forecasting the lot of two sisters, a brune and a blonde. She tells the brunette that her life will be very unhappy, but that he will love ber; to which the girl replies, "Vous me trompiez donc. Je serai trop heureuse." The poet then continues: "Tu n'auras même pas l'amour d'un autre coeur," Dit la vieille à l'enfant blanche comme la neige. Celle-ci demanda: "Moi, du moins l'aimerai-je?" “Oui "—"Que me disiez-vous? J'aurai trop de bonheur." Could anything be more "tender and true" than the last two lines? This good girl felt, with poor Elaine,

Sweet is true love, tho' given in vain, in vain. I have a translation of this poem in very nice English verse, but it was sent me privately; I have, therefore, no right to quote from it without the translator's permission.


later than the father of Bartholomew, and there is no evidence that I know of, though much probability, of there being any relationship between the two.

The only chief justiciary of the family was Ranulph, who died at Acre in 1189 or 1190.

I have thought the daughter of a Sir John Wingfield, who married Michael de la Pole, was daughter of the Sir John whose brass is at Letheringham, and that her mother was daughter of Sir Hugh Hastings. THOMAS WILLIAMS.

Aston Clinton.

BOOK MARGINS (8th S. ii. 307).—I question if the trade will give any attention to MR. WYLIE'S suggestion, and for my own part I should regret it if they did. An equal margin all round adds, I think, little to the beauty of a book, whilst a wide margin on the outside has a distinct and positive value of its own. Every man who really loves his books makes notes in the margin. Again, them he would cut the margin on the outside, and if they were equal at starting, when the binder got so render them again unequal, only in opposite C. A. WARD.


Chingford Hatch.

LUCE (8th S. ii. 328, 353, 391).—Surely your read the articles to which he refers with due care. correspondent at the last reference cannot have

At the first reference the statement really made is this: "In Harl. MS, 2125 is recorded the cost of making anew the four beasts called the unicorne, the antelop, the flower-de-luce, and the camell." My statement was that "the flower-deluce is a comic blunder." However, your correspondent is entitled to the opinion that it is correct.

GLANVILLE FAMILY (8th S. ii. 228, 310).-Surely Robert Fitzralph, Lord of Middleham, married Helewise, daughter and coheir of Ranulph de Glanville, for in 7 John he or his son Robert paid 200 marks for third of land belonging to William de Stutevill, in right of his wife Berta, niece of Ranulph de Glanville. He fined also for two My suggestion, of course, was that the flowerpræcipes to Thomas de Arden and Hugh de Auber-de-luce was a blunder for luce, and that the luce, ville, representatives of the other daughters of which is also a beast, was probably a lynx. No Ranulph de Glanville. one need adopt this solution if he can find a better. But he must find us a quadruped of some sort.

Galfrid de Glanville left five daughters coheirs. Four married respectively Ed., Earl Cornwall (who was he?), John Grey, William Boiville, and Emeric Perche; the fifth daughter Alicia was unmarried at the time of the entry in the Plea Rolls.

Was there any Gilbert de Glanville except the one who was consecrated Bishop of Rochester in 1185 and died 1214? There was surely no earl of the name.

There does not seem any ground whatever for supposing that any one of the Glanvilles was an earl. One married the widow of an earl, but that did not, of course, convey the dignity.

Walter de Glanville had at Domesday nine and a half fees in Suffolk-no such great holding. William de Glanville had a son Bartholomew, for he confirmed his father's foundation grant to Bromholm priory; but William the justiciary was

Again, in the catalogue, "one unicorn, one dromedary, one luce, one camel," it is also probable that the luce here meant is a quadruped and not a pike.

I cannot produce further authority for luce in the sense of lynx, because it is extremely difficult to find, but I believe it can be found, and that I have met with other instances. And surely, if luce ever did mean a quadruped, etymology tells us that it is the lynx and nothing else. I do not for a moment believe that the existing heraldic authorities are exhaustive, or that the compilers of them necessarily understood every old English term they ever met with. There is a large number of words in Randell Holme of which modern heralds have probably never heard. Very likely he explains luce, but I have not the book at hand.


Few glossaries of heraldry are more complete than Elvin's, but he does not give luzern at all.

There is an unlucky misprint in my article caused by my dropping three words in writing it out. Read: "In a pageant by Dekker, called Britannia's Honour' (1628), the supporters of the Skinners' arms are said to be two luzernes." The statement is not mine, but Dekker's. It may be wrong; but if it was at that date correct, we may be sure that luzernes were lynxes, for lucern=lynx is given in Halliwell. The present supporters of the Skinners' arms (London) are not lynxes, neither are they a pair. Hence I never meant that a lynx was an armorial "charge," for it was only a 'supporter," which is quite a different thing, for supporters are often varied.


I do not understand what is meant by saying, "Part of the charges on the arms of the Skinners' Company, London, is fleurs-de-lys or." For it so happens that a large, well-painted copy of these arms was kindly given me but a short time ago by the Master of the Company, and I believe it accordingly to be authentic. These arms contain three coronets proper on a chief gules, and the rest of the field is ermine. I cannot find a single "fleur-de-lys" anywhere, and the ermine is not "or," but "sable on argent," as usual.

In conclusion, I see no reason as yet for supposing that I have made any mistake whatever, beyond the unlucky omission of three words, which would hardly have misled any one who read my few lines carefully.

As to lucern, see seven quotations in Nares's Glossary'; he does not explain it properly, as he failed to see that it meant a lynx.

[blocks in formation]

I am pleased to see a further note on this subject. My own impression all along has been that flower-de-luce was a mere provincialism for "fleurde-lis." In Staffordshire I know that the French lilies are so termed to this day, and near Cannock (in that county) is a public-house bearing the sign of the "Fleur-de-Lis," which would be unknown to the average native by that name, and a stranger inquiring for the house would have to speak of it as the "Flower-de-louse" to make himself understood. In heraldic works occasionally a little fun is poked at our neighbours across the Channel about their former arms being "floure-de-lice." J. BAGNALL. Water Orton.

ST. JAMES'S SQUARE (8th S, ii. 267, 310, 339, 368). — In thanking those correspondents of

N. & Q.' who have answered my inquiry concerning St. James's Square, I should like to point out that MR. FRANCIS is in error in supposing that the late Lord Derby lived at two separate houses on the north side of the square, the house now numbered 10 being identical with the number 8 of the period alluded to. It is, moreover, not at the corner of York Street, but one door off it. MR. E. H. COLEMAN is also wrong, I think, in assigning the dates 1720 and 1741 to the two impressions of Sutton Nicholls's views of the square, these dates having been ascribed to the plate in Old and New London' and the Crace Catalogue without sufficient authority.

All that seems to be known for certain is that the plate was issued early in the eighteenth century undated, but it was altered on the formation of the ornamental water in the centre, and again used for the illustrated edition of Stow's 'Survey,' in which last state it is of comparatively common occurrence.

With respect to MR. BLOUNDELLE-BURTON'S note, I must point out in self-defence that, although a pedestal was undoubtedly set up in the centre of the square as early as 1727 (for an intended statue of George I.), the existing equestrian figure of William III. was not placed thereon till the beginning of the present century, when it was cast in brass (about 1808) by the younger Bacon. ARTHUR IRWIN Dasent.

Tower Hill, Ascot, Berks.

DR. EDMOND HELDER (8th S. ii. 247).- In Offley or Little Offley Church, near Hitchin, are tombs under the altar table (an oval table, I believe) to some of the family of Helder, "alias that family. The name is uncommon. Spicer." Perhaps Dr. Edmond Helder was of

for this

J. R. B.

TEA-LEAVES (8th S. ii. 325, 350).-For the poor to collect spent tea-leaves from the houses of the more well-to-do folk was a custom in Derbyshire less than forty years ago. In most homes of the middle classes the tea-leaves were saved regularly purpose, and were fetched by old women Tea was then or children in "tin cans" or jugs. dear, and the poor folks when they bought from the village shop always had green tea, because it the second brewing, or mashing, the tea-leaves was stronger and a little went a long way. After were not considered spent, but the pot, filled up again with boiling water, was left on the hob all night and the contents served for the first drink of fill the stone bottle in which he took his "drinking” the workman early in the morning, or was used to into the field. This "drinking" was as often herb-beer, or "bang-up," as tea-seldom "Adam's yale" or watter."


D. appears to be under the impression that tealeaves thus collected were dried and made up as

tea before again using them. This was not so. A
mass of the moist leaves was placed with some of
the liquor in an earthenware teapot, boiling water
added, and then it was set to brew on the hob, or
on a cricket in front of the fire. The teapot would
stand most of the afternoon, and the brew was
used by the family at teatime. Forty, and less
than forty, years ago there were many labouring
families glad enough of the castings from the better
class teapots. Two old teapots I have which were
used for this purpose to my knowledge. They
are of the Denby or Brampton pottery ware, and
are large, strong, tall, and shaped much like coffee-


[ocr errors]
[merged small][ocr errors][merged small]

In the Life of Hawker, of Morwenstowe,' a similar act of vandalism is related; the clerk having, before the vicar's arrival, done him " gude turn "; having "just been and cut down and burned a rubbishing old screen that hid the chancel." The same treatment of a screen, I believe, took place at Beeford, near this place, not many years ago. It is as well to "put the saddle on the right horse." E. L. H. TEW, M.A.

Hornsea Vicarage, E. Yorke.

1859, from the recitation of E. S. P.-born in 1793-who had learnt it when a boy from an old man, named Henry Richard, at Northorpe, in North Lincolnshire. Unfortunately E. S. P. had a defective ear where melody was in question, in consequence of which deficiency the tune accompanying the lay has not descended with the words:

FABIAN (8th S. ii. 247).-Possibly the allusion is to a reprobate member of the Fabian family. Of Fabii (or Fabians) who were dissolute spend- TRADITIONAL BALLADS: 'THE THREE RAVENS' thrifts three examples are recorded. 1. Fabius (8th S. ii. 324).-A correspondent of N. & Q.' Gurges, so called "a devorato patrimonio asks for the old Lincolnshire version of this rhyme. (Macrobius, 'Saturnalia,' ii. 9). 2. Fabius sur-I give it below as it was noted down in the year named Allobrogicus (Valerius Maximus, vi. ix. 4). These, however, mended their ways, and in their mature manhood became ornaments of society. 3. The son of the latter (ibid., iii. v. 2), whom Cicero pronounces to have been "perditorum facile deterrimus." So flagitious was his life that he was interdicted by the city prætor from administering to his father's estate. "Flaunting fabian" is used again by Florio, s.v. "Brauazzo," another form of bravaccio, a swaggerer. Florio is apparently the only authority for the word; if it exists elsewhere it is probably obscured from notice by being printed with a capital initial. The third of my examples may well have served later writers than Cicero and Valerius Maximus as a type of degeneracy from ancestral virtues.

[ocr errors]

The word may, however, be a relic of Fabian plays (see Collier's Annals of the Stage,' i. 201, 233; ii. 328), or be a colloquialism for the "Rex Fabarum" (Lord of Misrule). It is wanting in Florio's 'New World of Words.' F. ADAMS. 105, Albany Road, Camberwell.

Fabian, after the Roman general named Fabius, founder of the Fabian policy of exhausture by delay, who died 203 B.C. A. H. delayer"? Vide Fabius M. GILCHRIST.

Does this not mean "6 Cunctator.

'ESSEX: HIGHWAYS, BYWAYS, AND WATERWAYS' (8th S. ii. 139).-YourNotes on Books' contain an account of this volume, in which it is stated that "In Messing Church there used to be a wooden effigy, with the legs crossed, of Sir William de Messing. It was hacked to pieces and used as firewood by order of a former vicar." No doubt the clergy of bygone days have sins enough of this kind to answer for, but in this case the strong expressions used are wholly undeserved. My wife,

There was three ravens in a tree,
As black as any jet could be.

A down a derry down.
Says the middle-most raven to his mate,
Where shall we go to get aught to eat?
A down a derry down.

It's down in yonder grass-green field
There lies a squire dead and killed,
A down a derry down.

His horse all standing by his side,
Thinking he'll get up and ride.
A down a derry down.
His hounds all standing at his feet,
Licking his wounds, that run so deep
A down a derry down.
There comes a lady full of woe,
As big with bairn as she can go.
A down a derry down.
She lifted up his bloody head,
And kissed his lips that were so red.
A down a derry down.
She laid her down all by his side,
And for the love of him she died.
A down a derry down.

Whether this ballad is still remembered by "old standards" in the parts of Lindsey, Kesteven, and Holland, it is impossible to decide. Vain inquiries have been made for it, and for other folk-rhymes, yet they may, perhaps, still linger in the memories of a few elderly people. To expect any acquaintanceship with them among the lads and lasses would be absurd. A proud and properminded mother said to me, not long ago, in refer

« PreviousContinue »