199 I think, sufficiently described in the statement which was made by my noble friend and colleague Lord Cranborne on November 13 last.† Lord Cranborne on that occasion explained that in our view the publication by a former representative of the Crown of reminiscences relating to recent events which had come within the writer's notice in the course of his official duties was not permitted without the previous consent of the Secretary of State; and it was stated that such publication, without that consent, was, in our view, reprehensible. I venture to think that there are few people who will dispute the reasonableness of that contention. But the article attracted so much attention Diplomatic Service- {LORDS} rendered him liable to severe pains and penalties for having disclosed official secrets. From my own experience I should say the crime of disclosing official secrets was very difficult of accomplishment. I have myself been for some years in the Diplomatic Service, and I do not mind venturing on the rather bold assertion that such things as official secrets practically do not exist. I really believe that short of selling a cipher, or other definite action of that kind, it would be extremely difficult for the most illintentioned person to offend against the to offend against the Official Secrets Act. The despatch boxes which follow the Foreign Secretary wherever he goes, and which are looked upon as the repositories of earth quaking mysteries, very often contain little that the outside world does not know. The same thing applies to despatches sent to the uttermost ends of the earth; there is very little in those despatches that does not appear a few hours afterwards in the public newspapers. Whether official secrets exist or not, nobody likes to be charged with an offence, even though it be an imaginary offence. Sir Horace Rumbold may be an over-sensitive person, and may have placed a totally wrong construction on the answer which was returned in the House of Commons. Some people may possibly think that he would have been better advised if the matter had been allowed to remain where it stood. On the other hand, I would ask your Lordships to consider that a man far advanced in years, the whole of whose life practically has been passed in the public service, who, amongst other things, has attained the dignity of a Privy Councillor, cannot but be deeply pained at any sort of suggestion that he has acted in a dishonourable manner, or has in any way betrayed a trust. I, therefore, appeal to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to that there explain publicly is no imputation of this nature upon Sir Horace Rum bold. The article contained an account of a very interesting and important conversation upon an official matter which took place between the writer and the Emperor of Austria. It also contained an account of communications which had passed between the writer and the Austro-Hungarian Government upon a subject of great importance and great delicacy, in which the name of Her Majesty the late Queen Victoria was introduced. Now, when Sir Horace Rumbold reported these matters, as he did, to the Foreign Office, in official despatches, he marked both of those despatches "confidential," and I am able to tell your Lordships that we should certainly never have dreamt of publishing deSpatches of that description without first obtaining the concurrence of the AustroHungarian Government; and it seems + See (4) Debates, cxiv., 871. our point of to me to follow, a fortiori, that if the con- they should take in order to make clear the sent of the Austro-Hungarian Govern- manner in which they regarded the ment was necessary for such publication, subject. I find in that no imputation on Sir Horace Rumbold should have applied Sir Horace Rumbold. The words were to the Foreign Office for the consent of simple words and all that they indicated, that Department before publishing on his and were intended to indicate, was that, own account inthis country. I dare say as there was evidently in the mind of Sir my noble friend has observed that one Horace Rumbold, and very possibly in the of the consequences of this publication minds of others, some misconception as to was an interpellation-I rather think the limits within which these publications there were two-in the Reichsrath, of a were to be permitted, we should take care somewhat embarrassing character, to remove that doubt. I will tell my addressed to the Austro-Hungarian I do not think that he will complain of us. noble friend how we propose to do so, and Government. Well, I certainly say We propose, in the next issue of the that that publication was an indiscreet and, from Foreign Office List, to publish a new view, reprehensible publication. But, regulation affecting the Diplomatic Service, and we shall make it perfectly clear that on the other hand, I gladly respond to members of that service must not, withthe invitation of my noble friend, and out the express permission of the Secretary add that we do not suggest, and never of State, publish observations on, or have suggested, that in committing this accounts of their experience in the indiscretion Sir Horace Rumbold was countries in which they are, or have been, guilty of a betrayal of trust, or, indeed, officially employed, nor any information actuated by any unworthy motives. I obtained by them in their official capacity; think my noble friend was justified in and we shall add-and I think that this is appealing to Sir Horace Rumbold's long very important-that, in our view, this and distinguished career as a sufficient obligation of secrecy in regard to official guarantee that he would have been experience and information continues incapable of any conduct of the kind. equally after their retirement from the I also readily accept the assurance which service. That will I hope, make it was given to us by my noble friend- abundantly clear to all concerned that and it has also been given to us by Sir these acts of indiscretion must not be Horace Rumbold-that he was in no repeated, and I am quite convinced that way responsible for the accident owing when it is so made clear the regulation to which the publication of this article will be respected, and honourably observed. took place at a particular and a most inopportune and unfortunate moment. The only other matter to which the noble Lord referred was the concluding passage in my noble friend Lord Cranborne's statement, in which something was said of the steps His Majesty's not, in British diplomacy, bear the Government were likely to take in order interpretation placed upon it by the As everybody knows, representatives abroad are eternally writing to the Foreign Office, and it is My impossible to read all they write. experience is that, unless documents are marked "confidential," most of them LORD NEWTON: Sir Horace Rumbold heard of again. As to the second point, reach the pigeon-hole and are to mark their disapproval of Sir Horace Rumbold's conduct, and I must say my noble friend seems to have read into that statement a great deal more than it actually contained. read into it. *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: Well, Sir Horace Rumbold read into it a great deal more than it contained. What was the statement? The statement was simply this, that His Majesty's Government were considering what steps LORD NEWTON: I beg to thank the noble Marquess or his answer, but there are two points which I should like to comment upon. First, as to the word "confidential.” I submit that it does outside world. never it seems to me that the noble Marquess proposes to add largely to the labours of the Foreign Office, because, if I interpret his answer correctly, he is going to establish a Press censorship in that already overworked Department. Suppose I propose to write my reminiscences, would it be necessary to submit what I write to the Foreign Office to go over and carefully study all that I propose to put down, any trivialities? If so, I cannot help thinking that the noble Marquess is embarking on a large undertaking. Considering the large number of persons who have been employed in some capacity or other, if they all take it into their heads to publish their reminiscences, this duty would probably be found to require a large addition to the staff of the Department. *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE I am afraid that if this discussion continues a great many of our idols will be broken for us. The noble Lord has told us that the contents of our little red boxes, which are so carefully locked, are well known to the man in the street. He went on to tell us that confidential despatches rarely, if ever, contain any confidential matter. LORD NEWTON: Only sometimes. *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE : I am afraid we can hardly admit that. As to the noble Lord's last point, I am not at all intimidated by the prospect he holds out. It is quite clear that in the case of ordinary personal reminiscences -"trivialities," as my noble friend calls them there would be no question of revision; but where there is debatable ground, and where the information contained-where its revelation --was likely to be of importance, in all such cases I feel convinced that the members of the Diplomatic Service would be the first in all doubtful cases to consult with the Foreign Office and honourably abide by the advice which might be given to them. *LORD STANMORE: I should like just to remind the noble Lord who put this question that the rule now proposed by the noble Marquess is no new rule. It has been understood for generations that no public servant, serving under the Foreign Office, and receiving confidential communications from foreign Governments or Ministers, has any right whatever to publish any part of any information he may happen to possess, whether in or out of office, without the permission of the Sovereign, signified through one of the Secretaries of State. Lord Newton. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (the DUKE of DEVONSHIRE) : In moving the adjournment of the House, it may be convenient to give notice that, in the event of the Committee on the Education Bill, as probably it may happen, not being finished to-morrow, we propose, as I think it is generally understood, that we should continue the discussion on the next day; and I should like further to suggest, in order to give plenty of time to finish, if possible, the discussion on that day, that it might be convenient to meet earlier on Wednesday -say at three or four o'clock. The exact hour will be settled when we adjourn tomorrow. House adjourned at five minutes before Five o'clock till To-morrow, half - past Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, 8th December, 1902. The House met at Two of the Clock. THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND The Clerk at the Table informed the House of the unavoidable absence of the Chairman of Ways and Means. PETITIONS. LIQUOR TRAFFIC (LOCAL VETO) BILL. Petition from Beccles, in favour; to lie upon the Table. VIVISECTION. Petition from Teignmouth, for prohibition; to lie upon the Table. RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC. AFRICA (No. 5, 1902). Copy presented, of Memoranda relating to the Uganda Railway, 1902 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. TREATY SERIES (No. 16, 1902). Copy presented, of Treatise between the United Kingdom and Ethiopia, and between the United Kingdom, Italy, and (Answered by Mr.A.Graham Murray.) No application in this matter has reached the Secretary for Scotland, and consequently no authority has been given. MR. WEIR: To ask the Lord Advocate if he will state what progress has been made with the construction of the proposed road between the townships of Achnahaird and Altaudhu, Ross-shire. (Answered by Mr. A.Graham Murray.) On 5th instant the Congested Districts Board received from the County Clerk a letter stating that the County Council had resolved to accept a tender for the construction of this road on certain matters being approved by the Congested Districts Board. The decision of the Board will be given in due course. MR. WEIR: To ask the Lord Advocate whether the Congested Districts Board have received a revised estimate of the cost of construction of the Cromore-Gravir Road, Island of Lewis; and will he state whether the Board are now prepared to provide a grant such as will enable the local authorities to proceed with the construction of the road. (Answered by Mr. A. Graham Murray.) I am informed by the Congested Districts Board that they have not yet received the revised scheme the hon. Member alludes to. Imports of Canadian Cattle-Slaughtering Regulations. SIR JOHN LENG (Dundee): To ask the President of the Board of Agriculture House communications that have passed whether he will lay upon the Table of the between himself and the Canadian Government respecting the extension of the time limit for the slaughtering of Canadian cattle at landing ports in this country. (Answered by Mr. Hanbury.) I can give no promise on this point until the correspondence is completed. Police Provision, in the Metropolis. SIR GEORGE BARTLEY (Islington, N.): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the fact that three burglaries have been committed on the same premises in the City Road within two years; and whether steps have been taken to strengthen the police protection in that street. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Akers Douglas.) I understand that it is the fact that certain premises in the City Road have been broken into, or have been the object of attempts, on four occasions. In two cases the criminals were arrested with the property in their possession and were convicted. In a third case they were found concealing themselves in the area, and were prosecuted and convicted. In the fourth case no arrest was made. I am advised that the division in which the City Road is situated is adequately provided with constables, and I do not think that the above facts prove the contrary. It would be impossible to increase the police force to such an extent as prevent all housebreaking in any given spot. Factory Acts-Spirit Bottling Establishments. to SIR THOMAS DEWAR (Tower Hamlets, St. George's): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, seeing that although under the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, employers engaged in the bottling of beer are entitled, in pursuance of the special exception under Section 49, to employ women on overtime, no such provision is made in favour of employers when engaged in the bottling of spirits; and, in view of the effect of this omission when there is pressure of bottling business in spirit trades, will he consider the expediency of taking such steps as may be necessary to include bottling of spirits in the special exception list under the Act. these exceptions is very undesirable, and they will be given only if a clear case of necessity can be shown. Police-Constable William Drake, of CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will see that further consideration is given to the case of ex-Police Constable William Drake, who met with an accident in the execution of his duty as a water policeman at Devonport in 1898, and was invalided with a small gratuity in lieu of a pension. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Akers the year 1900 by my predecessor in Douglas.) The case was dealt with in office under the provisions of The Police Act, 1890. I have inquired into it and find that the Chief Surgeon of the Metropolitan Police has advised that no connection has been established between the slight injury on duty sustained by the ex-police-constable and the disease which caused him to be returned as unfit for further service. In these circumstances a pension could not be granted. I may add that the gratuity awarded was the maximum authorised by the Act. Education Bill - Rating of Provided and Non-provided Schools. MR. HARWOOD (Bolton): To ask the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to the fact that in consequence of Section 3 of The Voluntary Schools Act, 1897, it will follow that under the new Education Bill public elementary schools founded by the new local education authority will be rated for local purposes, whilst those not so provided. will be exempt from such rating; and whether he will take steps to remove the inequality which will thus be caused between one township and another in the same union, as the township with non-provided schools will escape that portion of their assessment to the common fund. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) Under Section 3 of The Voluntary Schools Act, 1897, no person can be assessed or rated |