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ings ascribed to fitter is "one who conducts the
sales between the owner of a coal-pit and a shipper
of coals."
ST. SWITHIN.

chimes being connected with the verses. The clock and chimes of Ware parish church were, according to the parish register, put up about 1732, and, whatever may have been their alteration or transposition, now ring as follows:This word may possibly be connected with hoast Sunday-"Oh, rest in the Lord." in the name hoastmen, an ancient gild or fraterMonday-"There is no luck about the house."nity at Newcastle, dealing in sea-coal" (Halliwell; Tuesday-"Believe me, if all those endearing young charms.” (The chime is also known as The Watercress Girl.') Wednesday-"Life let us cherish." Thursday-The Last Rose of Summer.' Friday-Blue Bells of Scotland.' Saturday-Home, sweet Home.'

Until 1877 the tune rung on Sundays was "Hanover," "O, worship the King." A copy of "The Contract' may probably be found in the British Museum, and an interesting account of the church bells of Hertfordshire was compiled by the late Thomas North, and completed and edited by J. C. L. Stahlschmidt. ROBERT WALTERS. Ware Priory.

THOMAS MILTON (8th S. iii. 69).-In the "Chronology of the Reigns of George III. and IV., by W. J. Belsham, Esq:, 1829," the death is recorded, on February 27, 1827, of " Mr. Thomas Milton, engraver: his grandfather was brother to John Milton." JAMES HOOPER.

Norwich.

The following works are preserved in the British Museum Library :

The Chimney-Piece-Maker's Daily Assistant, or, a treasury of new designs for Chimney-Pieces...... From the original drawings of Thomas Milton, etc. 8vo. Lond., 1766.

A Collection of Select Views from the different Seats of the Nobility and Gentry in the Kingdom of Ireland. Engraved by Thomas Milton. [With descriptions] obl, 4to. [Lond. and Dub. 1794 (?)].

Views in Egypt...... Engraved by and under the Direction of Thomas Milton, fol. Lond. 1801. Another ed. 1804. This work contains forty-eight coloured plates, of considerable beauty.

Milton's death is thus recorded in Gent. Mag., April, 1827, vol. xcvii. part i. p. 379:

66

Feb. 27. At Bristol, aged eighty-four, Mr. Tho. Milton, the celebrated engraver. His grandfather was brother to John Milton, the author of Paradise Lost." DANIEL HIPWELL.

17, Hilldrop Crescent, N.

see also Coles's and Bailey's dictionaries). Per-
haps some local reader versed in the archeology
of the great coal town will be able to give us the
meaning of hoast.
F. ADAMS.
105, Albany Road, Camberwell, S. E.

"BURN THE BELLOWS " (8th S. ii. 527; iii. 77). -Bernard Barton, the Quaker poet, in a letter of 1847, describing a fine old English yeoman, says:

"I was gravely queried when I happened to say that his children had asked me to write a few lines to his general tone of my poetry-the speaker doubted if he memory, whether I could do this in keeping with the was a decidedly pious character! He had at times in his altitude been known to vociferate a song, of which the chorus was certainly not teetotalism

Sing old Rose, and burn the bellows,
Drink, and drive dull care away."

If the song about old Rose, of the Ram Inn, at
Nottingham, is the original version, perhaps others
grew from it, and were adapted to local circum-
JAMES HOOPER.

stances.

Norwich.

RUBBERS (8th S. iii. 68).-Rubbers did not signify "a contact or collision of two balls," but a set or match at the game of bowls. The following quotations prove this :

"Our goodmen may perchance once in a month get a foregame of us; but if they win a rubbers of us, let them throw their caps at it."-1602, Middleton, 'Blurt, Master Constable,' iii. 3.

"He gamed away eight double ringed tokens on a rubbers at bowles with the curate and some of his idle companions."-1634 (?), Heywood, 'The Lancashire Witches,' i. 1.

"Coomes, come hither sirrah, when our fathers part, call us upon the green. Philip, come, a rubbers, and so leave."-1599, 'The Two Angry Women of Abingdon,'

I. i.

"A match at two shilling rubbers" is spoken of as being played by sides in the country ("The Parson's Wedding,' ante 1650, i. 3). Probably bowls is here referred to.

The word is used in a proverbial phrase, "What Ingenioso? how hast thou held out rubbers 'ere "OASTS" (8th S. iii. 107, 134).-I believe the since thou wentest from Parnassus?" Equivalent to oasts in this case were middlemen, who bought fish"How have you rubbed along?" (Returne from from those who caught it or from those who carried Parnassus,' part i. Act I.). it up to London, and disposed of it to the retail dealers. Years ago I made a note from the 'Memoir of Ambrose Barnes' (Surtees Society), p. 102, in which ostman is defined as "hostman, a fitter, a mediator between the oaste or stranger arriving in the Tyne and sellers." In Ogilvie's Comprehensive Dictionary,' among several mean

It was probably not tranferred to whist till bowls went into decay. The word rub had a totally distinct sense, and is still used with the same meaning at golf. H. C. HART.

"MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT" (8th S. iii. 88).— Members of Parliament are e led in Claren

don's ' History of the Rebellion.' They were called Members of Parliament in the time of Charles I., as witness King Charles's own words: "I'm going to demand justice upon the five members, my enemies loaded with obloquies." Then there are the lines, attributed to Shakespeare, on Sir Thomas Lucy of Charlecote (the Justice Shallow of the plays), beginning thus:

A parliamente member, a justice of peace, At home a poor scare-crowe, at London an asse. It may be that these lines were not written by Shakespeare, but there seems evidence enough, on the authority of Oldys, to show that the ballad in which we meet with them was composed as far back as the days of Shakespeare; and, if so, the term Member of Parliament" must have been in use in the time of Queen Elizabeth.

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In the Calendar of State Papers of the reign of Mary in the Public Record Office, there is a paper (dated December 10, 1557), thus headed :"The Queen to the Sheriffs of counties and the Mayors and Burgesses of corporate towns, urging them to see that discreet and good Catholic members be chosen to serve in the Parliament to be holden on the 20th of January."

It is true this heading may have been affixed to the paper at a later period than Mary's reign, and the term "members" may not occur in the paper itself, yet the probability appears otherwise. I should quite expect to find the words "discreet and good Catholic members" in the paper itself.

C. W. CASS.

The words "parliamente member" occur in the vulgar lampoon, which has been erroneously attributed to Shakespeare,—

A parliamente member, a justice of peace, At home a poor scare-crow, at London an asse. These lines were in existence towards the close of the seventeenth century, they were received from a Mr. Jones, of Tarbick, who died in 1703, and was over ninety years of age. De Quincey seizes on the term as a proof of their spuriousness as regards the Shakespearean authorship,— "the phrase 'parliament member,' we believe to be quite unknown in the colloquial use of Queen Elizabeth's reign."-'Shakspeare, vol. xv. p. 57.

Dublin,

W. A. HENDERSON.

Clarendon ('Rebellion,' book iii.) writes :"There was observed a marvellous elated countenance in most of the members of parliament before they met together in the house."

EDWARD H. MARSHALL, M.A.

Hastings, TELEPHONIC (8th S. ii. 488; iii. 77).-Why do we turn so hastily to Greek and Latin whenever a new word is wanted, instead of seeking one home-born? The English speech is already overburdened with outlandish words that ought never

to have been taken in, and ought even now to be turned out. Ere another stranger is welcomed can we not at least see what we have close at band Spelwire and wire-spel for telegraph and telegram have already been suggested by the late Rev. W. Barnes, whose knowledge ought to have given them some weight; it seems, however, that they have been set aside.

Might we not, ere too late, take speechwire, wire-speech, tellwire, wire-telth or tale, wordwire, wireword, for telephone and telephonic message? If none of these is thought good, there are others to choose from. Of the following, one or two may be deemed as good as those already put forward. Might we not use spelwire, wirespel for telegraph, telegram; and sound-spelwire, sound-wirespel for telephone and telephonic message ? The two latter would soon be shortened into soundwire, soundspel. We already say "wire it," so the other is not a very wide step beyond. Or perhaps flashwire, flashspel for the first, and soundwire, soundspel for the two latter might do ; otherwise tongue-wire, tongue-wire-spel (which would become tongue-spel) for telephone and telephonic message. If these will not pass, why not farurit or farmark for telegram, farword or farsound or farspeech for telegraphic message, and farwriter, farspeaker, or farteller for telegraph, telephone? Although, indeed, against these last, notwithstanding the laughter they may excite (of which spark of pleasure the writer will only be too glad to be the cause), farwrittle and farspeakle for telegraph and telephone may have as much, if not more, to recommend them, as they have or any before them.

However, all are simply thrown into the field by way of challenge, no one else having come forward on the English side. They will have done good work if they only bring out two English champions that will hold the ground against them and the foreigners too. AD LIBRAM.

Telephon is too near telephone, I fear, to be admissible; telepheme is exotic; phogram is too abrupt, and is suggestive of program, grogram, and Elijah Pogram. I have had a polite letter from Mr. Francis J. Parker, of Boston, Mass., in which he suggests phonomit as an equivalent for a telephonic message. It is good, but does not fully satisfy my aspirations. Mittophon and phonotel are not uneuphonic. The former I think the better word; indeed, I fancy it to be the best yet ROBERT LOUTHEAN. proposed.

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in reference to his miserable leanness; and "treble" seems always to be used in connexion with the oboe. The old dictionaries of the early eighteenth century give “oboe” as a “hautboy," a "Hoboy or an "O'Boy," and further search brings forth the oboe d'amore, a very sweet-toned hautboy, which, after falling into desuetude, was again brought into use to render the scores of Bach correctly, and was employed in so doing at Westminster Abbey in January, 1880. Also there is the oboe di caccia, a most ancient instrument, corresponding somewhat to the almost equally ancient hunting-horn, or to a bassoon in tone, and much used once in Italy. But if WEYGHTE desires a full and comprehensive description of the instrument and its etymology, he can, I think, scarcely be recommended to anything better than Dr. Burney's musical articles in Rees's 'Cyclopædia,' or to his 'History of Music.'

Barnes Common.

JNO. BLOUNDELLE-BURTON.

"WHAT CHEER?" (8th S. iii. 66, 94).-This is a favourite ejaculation in the Royal Navy, where many another genuine archaism has been preserved in pickle for everyday use when almost forgotten ashore. I have the following notes of its occurrence in early writers .—

What chere, Joseph, what ys the case,
That ye lye here on this ground?

'Coventry Mysteries' (ed. Halliwell), p. 95. Phylander. I prithee speake: what cheere ?

woods?

loculo. What cheere can here be hopte for in these The Maydes Metamorphosis,' 1600. Bullen, 'Old Plays,' i. 157. And in Heywood's 'A Woman Killed with Kindness' (1604) it will also be found. It occurs also in Shakespeare. I could give other instances, but I can find no recent ones. It will probably be found to occur in naval songs. H. C. HART.

ANNE VAUX (8th S. iii. 29, 136). The HON. KATHLEEN WARD mentions Joanna Beaufort as the daughter of John of Gaunt by his second wife, Katherine Roet. John of Gaunt's second wife was Constantia of Castile. Katherine Roet, or Swynford, by which name she seems oftener mentioned, was his so-called third wife. At least she was married to John of Gaunt in 1396, three years before his death; but all her children, the Beauforts, were born out of wedlock, though they were subsequently legitimatized by Henry IV.

TAUPE.

REV. GEORGE WALKER, BISHOP OF DERRY (8th S. ii. 408; iii. 52).—It might help your original querist, who had heard of him as Bishop of Derry, and was told that there was no such bishop, to be informed that this was through an accident, or rather the fortune of war. William III. had destined Walker for the see of Derry, in gratitude for his gallantry during the siege; but the too

militant priest got killed at the battle of the
Boyne before he had had time to be consecrated.
See Olden's 'Church of Ireland,' p. 369.
C. MOOR.

spondent MR. TOMLINSON made some experiments SILVER IN BELLS (8th S. iii. 105).-Your correover fifty years ago that disproved, I thought, the bells. He had several dishes made, all of identical superstition of silver "improving" the tone of metals were, I believe, iron, copper, zinc, and pattern, of different metals and alloys. The pure silver. The alloys were bell-metal, yellow brass, and German silver. I noticed that all were beaten hollow in musical tone by the yellow brass, of E. L. G. copper and zinc.

Lord Grimthorpe writes: "The common notion of the old bells having silver in them is a mere vulgar error, equal to any of Sir Thomas Browne's." For this, with more on the composition of bellmetal, see his 'Lectures on Church-building; with some Practical Remarks on Bells and Clocks' (by E. B. Denison), Lond., 1856, p. 284, with the

context.

ED. MARSHALL.

The following anecdote, which I heard in Hungary some twenty years ago, seems to be to the point. A bell was about to be cast, and the metal was nearly ready, when, according to custom, the guests who had been invited to witness the process stepped forward one by one and threw silver coins into the molten metal. One old lady, however, mistaking the purport of the offerings, shyly cast her modest paper florin into the furnace.

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L. L. K.

CROYDON (8th S. iii. 87).—Awaiting a better reply to DR. MURRAY'S query, may I offer, as a mere guess, the following attempt? About 1850 a coach-builder of Croydon invented a new sort of carriage, in which the body consisted of wickerwork, instead of the usual panelling. Phaetons and pony-carriages were made in this way, and were called Croydon basket-carriages." They seem to have gone out of fashion; but perhaps they may have been taken up in Ireland, their name being abbreviated into "Croydon carriages," and finally into "Croydons," just as the Hansom patent safety cab has become a Hansom." If the word is originally Irish, my guess comes to nothing.

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J. DIXON.

THE POETS IN A THUNDERSTORM (8th S. ii. 422, 482; iii. 22, 95).—It is always a pity to diverge from the main subject under consideration; but as the question has been raised whether descriptive poetry is any longer possible, one word more may be said on the subject. It appears to be assumed that no living poet is equal to description of natural beauty, and that, at any rate, as a matter of fact, no one attempts such work. There would

176

NOTES AND QUERIES.

seem to be nothing between Thomson and Cowper on the one hand, and, on the other, those coming bards who shall rejoice in the day when "science and poetry will yet join hands." Now surely this is very strange, especially when we think of the descriptive poetry that has been written, from the early work of Keats to the last lines of Lord Tennyson. It must surely be true that we are in the habit of talking about poets without reading their poetry, and that, as a living poet has said, poetry is simply a drug in the market." Perhaps it is the case that a new style of verse will result from the harmonious co-operation of poetry and science-that, so far as the evidence goes, is only a presumption-but meanwhile, the question whether descriptive poetry can be written at the present time may be very easily answered. Take only one poet and one volume, and let these be Mr. Swinburne and his Tristram of Lyonesse and other Poems.' Consider there the sunrise and the rowing scene, both in 'The Sailing of the Swallow' (p. 27 and p. 36 respectively), and then deny, if possible, that descriptive poetry can be written now. For quick and minute observation, aptness and adequacy of diction, pregnant, nimble, and vigorous fancy, graceful and suggestive imagery, and fluency of harmonious verse, these passages may stand with anything in the language. The fact is that it is not science that is indispensable to make poetry effective-the desideratum is that of the old painter, whose firm belief was that we must mix our colours "with brains, sir." Fortunately, this combination will be possible in English verse while Mr. Swinburne (and others who might be named) continue to write.

Helensburgh, N.B.

THOMAS BAYNE.

CHARLES LAMB as a RitualiST (8th S. iii. 28, 76, 132).-Stole, no doubt, was used in early times as denoting an ecclesiastical vestment generally. But Scott could not, I think, have used it as surplice. The surplice is never used in the celebration of mass; the stole is always go used, under the chasuble. Any choir man or choir boy may use a surplice, and may use a cope. The latter is not a sacerdotal vestment, and cannot be worn by the celebrant at mass. Some have alleged that (the Armenians do so use the cope; but in their ritual it is really a chasuble, cut open in front for convenience, just as modern chasubles in the West are cut off at the shoulders for convenience. The pall would not be used over a cope, but over a chasuble. GEORGE ANGUS.

St. Andrews, N.B.

Perhaps Dean Milman was not so very far wrong about Archbishop Cranmer's vestments. For during his archiepiscopate it was ordered that when a bishop should celebrate the Holy Communion he should wear, besides his rochet, a surplice or albe,

[8th 8. III. MAR. 4, '93.

and a cope or vestment. Cranmer may, therefore have sometimes worn a cope and sometimes a chasuble at the Eucharist. At Durham copes were worn long after the chasuble had been disused. So also at Westminster. C. MOOR.

THE FAIRY VASE (8th S. iii. 125).-Besides Longfellow's rendering of Uhland's poem on this legend there is a pretty ballad entitled 'The Luck of Eden-Hall,' by Jeremiah Holme Wiffen, the translator of Tasso's 'Gerusalemme Liberata' and of the works of Garalasso de la Vega, called the Prince of Castilian Poets. This may be found in the Book of British Ballads' (pp. 399-408), edited by S. C. Hall, illustrated by Alfred Crowquill (Forester), each ballad illustrated by a different artist. This poem is by no means so well known as Longfellow's translation. The artist has represented the cup in form like a chalice, and the queen of the fairies standing in it.

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There is a curious poem on the cup, called the 'Drinking Match at Eden-Hall,' by Philip, Duke of Wharton, a parody on the ballad of Chevy Chace,' to be found in Evans's 'Old Ballads,' vol. ii. p. 291. This must have been written prior to 1731, at which date "Wharton, the scorn and wonder of his days," died in Spain. Antony Alsop addresses an ode in Latin sapphics, based upon this carousal, to his friend the Rev. Sir John Dolben, of Finedon, co. Northants. This may be found in Alsop's 'Odes,' 1752, a very scarce book in quarto.

My late friend Thomas Adolphus Trollope, in his amusing book 'What I Remember,' gives an account of the goblet which he had often seen produced when dining at Edenhall, near Penrith, about 1830, mentioning that Sir George Musgrave frequently placed it in the hands of visitors; and also gives us the inscription upon it :—

When this cup shall break or fall,
Farewell the luck of Edenhall.

In a note appended it is added (vol. ii. p. 37): grave asked Longfellow to dine at Edenhall, and picked "Subsequently to the publication of his poem Musa crow' with him on the conclusion of the poem, which represents the Luck' to have been broken, which Sir George considered a flight of imagination quite transcending all permissible poetical licence."

In Longfellow's 'Poems' this is said to be merely a translation from Uhland. The baronetcy of Musgrave of Edenhall stands fifth on the roll, and was one of the original creations of James I. I can remember very well the late Sir Richard Musgrave, in the year 1855, when he was about sixteen, and at that time the pupil of an old friend of mine. Both of them have passed away. JOHN PICKFORD, M.A. Newbourne Rectory, Woodbridge,

The extract from the Manchester Courier gives s version of the tradition of the Luck of Edenhall

with which I am unacquainted. As usually told, it was a butler going to fetch water from St. Cuthbert's well who came upon the feasting fairies and snatched away their goblet. What authority is there for assigning one of the Musgrave family as the hero of the tale? I suspect this version the more, since the Manchester Courier is certainly incorrect in stating that the goblet-which is by no means what is understood in ordinary parlance as a vase" has on the top the letters I.H.S." Those letters are on the cover of the leathern case wherein it is kept. The Rev. Dr. Fitch described the cup and its case fully in the Scarborough Gazette in the year 1880, and discussed its history, and his account was afterwards reprinted for private circulation. The 'Book of Days' also contains the legend and a description, with a drawing, of cup and case. Of authentic history of the cup there is very little. The problems connected with it are similar to those connected with a number of drinking vessels elsewhere in Celtic and Teutonic countries. I have considered them in the sixth chapter of 'The Science of Fairy Tales' (London, Walter Scott, 1891), and if any correspondent of N. &Q.' can add to the information I have there brought together I shall be very grateful.

E. SIDNEY HARTLAND.

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such as spring in the Winter, may be found in most parts
of Europe, and divers also in England.'
"To him have to be added also the names of Gilpin,
who mentions one tree that flowered regularly at Bul-
strode, on the 21st December, and another in the arbore-
tum at Kew; Dean Wren, who deals both with the
Glastonbury Thorn and the New Forest Oak, in which
King James could not bee induced to beleave' until
Wilkin, who, like the dean, edited Browne and added
a bishop's chaplain went to see it sprout; and Simon
many interesting notes. Particularly he tells us that
the thorn is a variety of the Crataegus oxyacantha,
whose proper time of flowering is May, whence it obtains
name of Mayblossom. Paxton, in his
its common
the thorn is very hardy, but says no further.
'Botanical Dictionary,' confines himself to stating that

"Meanwhile, there are many other places frequently
mentioned as possessing holy thorns, the names of which
escape the memory; Suffolk being, I think, the possessor
of one, if not more."
JNO. BLOUNDELLE-BURTON.

Barnes Common,

Since sending the original cutting from the Standard of January 16 many letters have appeared in that paper, and more especially one from the Rector of Woodham Ferrers. Those who consult N. & Q.' in future years concerning this subject should, therefore, be referred to the correspondence in the Standard during January, 1893. C. MOOR.

Something on this subject may be found in Dyer's Folk-Lore' (see index "Glastonbury") and in Gomme's "Gentleman's Magazine Library," Manners,' pp. 209-211.

of

A thorn tree with characteristics similar to that Glastonbury is to be seen near one of the French rivers. St. Patrick is said to have rested under its shadow. This tradition is mentioned in one of the recent books treating on the apostle of Ireland. I failed to make a note at the time, so have forgotten ASTARTE. where I read it.

THE HOLY THORN (8th S. iii. 125).-MR. C. MOOR notes the mention of this plant bursting into leaf on old Christmas Eve, but does not seem to have observed the considerable correspondence which afterwards took place in the Standard-the There is a little ambiguity in the notes at this paper originally mentioning the interesting sub-reference. MR. MOOR quotes from the Standard ject. As I was, I believe, the first to send an a statement that the thorn "burst into leaf"; MR. answer to the Rector of Woodham Ferrers, who BIRD says that it is reported to have "bloomed." asked the same as MR. MOOR does, viz., for some The incident recalls to mind the fact recorded in information on holy thorns in general and his in the Gentleman's Magazine for 1753 that in the preparticular, and as that answer has since been vious year the failure of the "Glastonbury Thorn" copied into scores of other papers, especially those at Quainton, in Buckinghamshire, to bloom on of a religious nature, I now offer it for insertion in December 25 led to the people of the neighbourthe pages of N. & Q.' As to eye-witnesses, they hood refusing to observe Christmas according to came forth in dozens. the new style. The festival was therefore postponed to January 6. C. C. B.

"Since Mr. Plumptre says he would be glad to hear if any correspondent could tell of any other holy thorn than his, it may not be out of place to refer him to that old and cherished friend of most readers and writers, Sir Thomas Browne. In the sixth chapter of his Pseudodoxia Epidemica,' commonly known as the Inquiry into Vulgar Errours,' he devotes a good deal of discussion, as well as adding information, to the subject of holy thorns and to the Rose of Jericho,' and he mentions the thorn at Glastonbury as doing almost identically that which the thorn at Woodham Ferrers" in July, 1824, the King and Queen of the Sandwich Many such precocious trees,' he tells us, and Isles were buried in the vaults [i. e., of that church],

does.

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THE KING AND QUEEN OF THE SANDWICH ISLANDS (8th S. iii. 105).—From a cutting sent by me from the Daily News of December 7, 1892, concerning the church of St. Martin's-in-theFields, and printed at p. 46 of the current volume of 'N. & Q.,' it seems that

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