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against a little girl, and there was quite an uproar in the province about it. Within two or three months another man was convicted on a similar charge, and I am informed and believe that the circumstances surrounding his case were in his favour rather than in the other, yet he was sentenced to penitentiary for seven years. Probably that was a just punishment, but if so what about the man who got only six months? This Bill provides that in such a case as that, if the Attorney General is not satisfied, his officers can make a report to him, and if he finds there has been a great miscarriage of justice, he simply issues his fiat on behalf of the prisoner, and the four or five judges who constitute the Court of Appeal, after reviewing the circumstances, can correct that error. I would not go any further than that at present. I do not see how my honourable friend could think for a moment of introducing an amendment giving the Attorney General of a province power to remit or reduce a sentence on his own initiative. I would certainly oppose such an amending clause. I do not think it would be fair to the Attorney General, as there is always a door open for the play of politics in a matter of that kind. In this case it goes before the judges of the Court of Appeal, and is not open to the play of politics, or favouritism, or anything of that kind.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: I quite agree with the amendment of the honourable gentleman and support it, but I go further. I would add to the authority the fiat of the Attorney General of each province, and give him the same right as the Minister of Justice to give a ticket of leave to a pris


Hon. Mr. McMEANS: I do not think that would be constitutional.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: Yes, I think it would. I could cite hundreds of cases in which the Minister of Justice has been bothered with small matters, such as the reporting on sentences, giving tickets of leave, and pardoning. For example, some people are brought before me, and I condemn them to jail or penitentiary; and the Minister of Justice never remits a sentence, never gives a ticket of leave, nor does anything with any of those prisoners without asking me for a report. Very often I report in favour of the prisoner, and about the time his sentence has expired by his good conduct or by the good report of the jailer, I recommend that, as he has served fifteen months out of twenty, or twelve out

of fifteen, he be released on the good report he has received. The report is generally accepted by the Minister of Justice, but it takes months to get his answer. I know a case where the prisoner's time had expired before the answer arrived. Why? Because the Minister of Justice has to deal with all the cases in the whole Dominion, and we know the time it takes to get reports from British Columbia or Prince Edward Island. If a man has been condemned for fifteen months and has served twelve months, his family or his attorney may petition the Minister of Justice to release him; but nothing is done until a report is received from the judge who passed sentence; and, though the judge may report in his favour, it would take two or three months for the order to be made releasing the prisoner. Why not in such cases give the Attorney General of the province the same right as the Minister of Justice has, and let the report of the magistrate or judge be sent to the Attorney General instead of to Ottawa? Then let the Attorney General release the prisoner if the report is favourable, or else report to the Minister of Justice or to the Court of Appeal if there is anything wrong with the sentence. In that way we could expedite matters, the Minister of Justice would be relieved of a lot of work, and the prisoner in whose favour the report is made would not have to wait for months for action. It would be a good thing in the interests of justice and of all poor people who are condemned. Though the sentence is generally just, there must be error sometimes; but, as the Minister of Justice does not act except after a report from the province, why not provide in this Bill to give the Attorney General the right to decide the case at once, or, if you wish, put a limitation that the amendment would not apply in the case of sentence to death, or to penitentiary for life, or for a stated number of years.

Hon. W. B. ROSS: The honourable gentleman has said that he accepts the principle of this Bill as stated by the honourable gentleman from Winnipeg.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: Yes.

Hon. W. B. ROSS: Then he wants to go further and put in something else. I point out that it is not competent, when he accepts the principle of the Bill, to propose an amendment which is distinct from it. It is not an amendment to that.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: Just add to it the amendment.

Hon. W. B. ROSS: That is not an amendment; it is new legislation. In the Imperial House of Commons two years ago there was a Franchise Bill giving the vote to certain men; then there was an amendment extending that vote to women; but the Speaker of that House ruled that the latter was new legislation, and not an amendment.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: I admit that my honourable friend is right if he takes a point of order as to that.

Hon. W. B. ROSS: Well, I do.

Hon. Mr. CHOQUETTE: I just suggest that, or I will move an amendment on the third reading.

Hon. W. B. ROSS: If my honourable friend wants to get in that further legislation, he should bring in a Bill of his own, and then we shall know exactly what it is; but the present Bill deals with one specific subject, and it is not an amendment to this to bring in legislation on something else. It is not the right form of legislation, and though a good deal of it has been done here, I think we ought to take notice of it now, and prevent any one from bringing in a new Bill under the guise of an amendment to a Bill, that is altogether distinct in its nature.

The amendment of Hon. Mr. McMeans was agreed to.

The Bill was reported with an amendment.

The Senate adjourned until 3 p.m. to



Thursday, April 25, 1918. The Senate met at 3 p.m., the Speaker in the Chair.

Prayers and routine proceedings. FRASER COMPANIES, LIMITED, BILL. Hon. Mr. BEIQUE presented the report of the Committee on Miscellaneous Private Bills, on Bill 9, an Act respecting the Fraser Lumber Company, Limited, and Fraser Companies, Limited.

He said: I desire to call the attention of this honourable House to this Bill, which is reported with an amendment striking out the last portion of clause 1. After the

committee rose, I thought it my duty to refer to the original charter of the Fraser Lumber Company, Limited, which is reenacted by this Bill as part of the charter of the Fraser Companies, Limited. I find in the original charter the following clause:

The company may hold between the said piers and booms, if situated, erected and maintained as aforesaid, all logs, pulp wood and other lumber coming down the Tobique River which are destined and intended for use and manufacture at the mills of the Company; and may also, by aid of such piers and booms, separate and sort out all the logs, pulp wood and other lumber coming down the said river; and may charge a toll of ten cent per thousand superficial feet for sorting out, whenever requested so to do by the owner thereof, the lumber coming down the said river belonging to persons or companies other than the Company.

I see no objection to that forming part of the powers of the Fraser Companies, Limited; but I see in that clause the reason why a portion of the clause which was struck out by the committee had been re-enacted, and, although I am not in accord with the wording of the portion of the clause struck out by the committee, I would suggest that some honourable gentleman in this House should give notice of an amendment. I think that the portion which was struck out should be replaced by these words:

That the report of the Standing Committee on Miscellaneous Private Bills on Bill No. 9, intituled "An Act respecting Fraser Lumber Company, Limited, and Fraser Companies, Limited," be not now adopted, but that it be amended by adding to clause one as amended by the Committee the following: "Subject to the obligation on the part of the Fraser Companies, Limited, of paying, satisfying, discharging, performing and fulfilling all the debts, liabilities, contracts and engagements of Fraser Lumber Company, Limited, and assuming all its duties and obligations with respect to the business, rights and property so acquired," and that thus amended the report be adopted.


The objection to the wording as it was contained in the Bill is that it seems to limit the obligation of paying the liabilities of the former company to such obligations were contracted with respect to the business, rights and property so acquired. There may be other obligations than those, and I think the wording which I have suggested should be adopted in order that it may conform entirely with the wording of the agreement under which one company purchased all the assets of the other company, and in order that it may conform with that part of the clause under which the new company should assume all duties connected with its business such as I have referred to in the other charter.

Hon. Mr. BOSTOCK: I would like to give notice that when this report is considered to-morrow, I will move the amendment referred to by the honourable gentleman from De Salaberry (Hon. Mr. Beique).

It was ordered that the report be taken into consideration to-morrow.




That an Order of the Senate do issue for a return giving a statement of imports of petroleum oils and spirits (gallons, value and duty) during each of the following fiscal years ending March 31: 1909-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17, and for each month of the unexpired year ending March 31, 1918.

He said: Honourable gentlemen, I desire to lay before the members of this Chamber certain information that should be read by everybody the world over who is able to read. It is so very important that I have committed a great deal of it to copious notes, which, with the consent of my honourable friends, I will read to them in order that it may appear on Hansard as it is here. It is too serious a subject to risk any mistakes which I might make in delivering it orally, or which might be made in taking

it down.

I desire to call the attention of this honourable House to a question the importance of which, in my opinion, comes next to the successful termination of the present war and to the much-to-be-desired increase in the production of agricultural products in Canada. I refer to the opening up of the deposits of oil-carrying shales of the Maritime Provinces of Canada and to the recovery therefrom of their contents of oil and nitrogen.

For the last ten years I have, in season and out of season, advocated that the Government should take active measures to secure the opening up and the commercial utilization of these deposits. The arguments advanced by me during those ten years stand good to-day, and can be supplemented by others that are as strong or stronger. History has proven the correctness of my statements and the soudness of my deductions.

The British Government over four years ago recognized the importance of securing to the Empire an adequate supply of crude oil, and, to secure only a partial supply, adventured the investment of many millions of dollars in a foreign country, viz; Persia. It is not unreasonable to ask that the


Government of Canada arrange to take, without further delay, such measures will secure to Canada an adequate supply of crude oil within her own borders, and especially if by so doing it is possible and I am of the opinion that it is possible to put a stop to and prevent any further advance being made in the sale price, in Canada, of crude oils, fuel oil and gasolene.

For the eleven months of the current year the importations into Canada of crude oil, fuel and gas oils, are said to have exceeded a total of $14,000,000, and it is claimed that for the 12 months ending March 31st last the total importations will be nearly $16,000,000 Moreover, had Canadian crude oil and fuel oil been obtainable, it would have been possible and advantageous to every one concerned, to have substituted fuel oil for the coal consumed by the shipping and dredges using Canadian waters. This substitution would have reduced the total of the coal consumed in Canada during the year by over 1,000,000 tons, and would have increased the value of crude oils, gas and fuel oils used in Canada, which if imported would have increased the total to over $22,000,000. All of the money might have been and in the future should be, retained in Canada. It will be retained if the Government will give heed to those who have made this question a special study.

The substitution of fuel oil in place of coal as fuel for the ships, ets., using Canadian waters would have had no less than

four important advantages. The ships using fuel oil could have carried more cargo. These increased cargoes could have been carried to Europe in less time. These increased cargoes, carried in less time, would require a smaller staff of men to fire the boilers. Lastly, the coal saved would have been available for consumption in the mills and workshops of Canada during the late scarcity of fuel. These statements are not made without authority. Their correctness can be verified.

The deposits of oil-bearing shales of the Maritime Provinces of Canada are ideally placed to supply the requirements of Eastern Canada, of the great lakes and of the steamers navigating the north Atlantic. The quality of the fuel oil produced from these shales is of the best. Its comparative freedom from sulphur and its comparatively light gravity makes it suitable for consumption on submarines. Its sulphur content is lower than that of the Scotch oils. Without having to construct pipe lines of great length, it is possible to load tank steamers with the oil at several ports. For


60 years crude oil has been obtained in Scotland by the retorting of the shales of that country. The Scotch shales contain only about one-half the crude oil and less than half the nitrogen present in the shales of the Maritime Provinces. Of late years this trade in Scotland has been very profitable, and the conditions of the world's supply and the consumption of oil warrants the conclusion that trade conditions will remain favourable.

In the year 1914 the world's total production of crude oil was 400,483,489 barrels, each of 35 imperial gallons. In that year the production of the United States was 265,769,569 barrels; in the year 1915 it was 281,104,104 barrels; and in 1916, it was 324,375,503 barrels. There is no doubt that the total production of the United States in 1917 exceeded 350,000,000 barrels. The large increase in the production of the United States will have made up for the reduction of the output in Roumania and Russia caused by the present war. The present total production of the world may safely be taken as exceeding 400,000,000 barrels. During the last four years the large stocks of crude oils previously held in the United States have been gradually depleted, and it is expected that by the end of 1918 these stocks will be eliminated. It is therefore probable that the present consumption of the world is around 500,000,000 barrels per year.

The increase of production in the United States has been from oil secured from new oil fields. The production from the old oil fields is reduced year by year. It is not Dossible that many discoveries of new oil fields located in the States will occur, or should they occur the location of these new fields is likely to be in regions inconveniently placed for transportation. In the United States attention has lately been called to the large deposits of oil-bearing shales situated in Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Montana. These deposits are to be developed, but as it requires very considerable capital to develop and work a deposit of oil-bearing shale, it is admitted that no more crude oil can be expected from the new source of supply than will make up for the certain decrease from the oil fields.

The reasons why the oil-shale deposits of the Maritime Provinces have not been developed are not difficult to discover. These reasons are: the industry to be successful has to be undertaken in works of very considerable magnitude; the cost of constructing such works calls for a very

considerable capital; the material and machinery required for such works is not manufactured in Canada; the machinery required is in nearly all cases special, and moreover has to be adapted to the quality of the shale it is intended to operate. The quality of shale varies within wide limits. Each of these shales requires its own peculiar treatment.

Certain antagonistic interests in England, Scotland and the United States have not hesitated to prevent the opening up and operating of these deposits. Not only have false reports been freely spread, but great pressure has at times been brought to bear upon financial houses to prevent them from providing the necessary capital. These statements can be proven. Again, for some years there was no one in Canada who was qualified to take hold of the construction and operation of such works, nor was it possible to find in Scotland any one who being competent, understood Canadian conditions. This trouble now has ceased to exist. Mr. Louis Simpson, industrial engineer of this city, has given seven years in Europe and Canada to the study of this problem. The information he has thus acquired, combined with knowledge he has already acquired in the construction and management of industries that call for very expert technical knowledge has removed this difficulty. Mr. Simpson designed and constructed the first hydro-electric power house operated in Canada, and is a member of the American Electrochemical Society.

I desire to state:

That in my opinion the manifest public interest of the Dominion of Canada should cease to be lost sight of, and this so important but so long neglected Canadian asset should without further delay be treated in a statesmanlike manner, irrespective of narrow-minded prejudice or of a fear to undertake what may be a new departure.

That the interests of Canada demand that the $22,000,000 before mentioned sha i cease to be sent out of Canada year by year.

That the interests of Canadian agriculturists and of the general public demand that a limit be placed upon the price at which gasolene is sold.

That the interests of Canadian manufacturers and of the general public demand that the production of fuel oil in Canada shall be increased and that a limit be placed upon the price at which fuel and gas oils are sold.

That the interests of Canadian shipping demand that arrangements be made to pro

vide a constant supply of high grade fuel oil at reasonable prices.

That the interests of the returned soldiers demand that the development of these natural resources of Canada, in the development and utilization of which many returned soldiers can be provided with profitable employment, under ideal local conditions, be forthwith undertaken.

I feel that the reasons herein given are more that sufficient to justify the Government considering the question with a view of taking immediate action.

Now, I am going to give you some statistics which will support the argument I am making and should go with it, because Washington is now sending investigators to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to inquire into the matter, and they should be fortified with such facts from here as will show that the subject is thoroughly understood and that we do not depend upon the ipse dixit of anybody to know what is required.

In 1917, according to the statistics furnished by the Division of Mineral Resources and Statistics of the Department of Mines, under the direction of J. McLeish, the imports of petroleum and petroleum products were valued at $21,455,326. The statement furnished me shows how much of this total value is made up of illuminating oils, how much of petroleum and gas oils, how much of gasolene, paraffin wεx, etc. Figures are given for all these products obtained from petroleum before it goes into the hands of the refiner, whose work is another branch of the business.

years ended March 31st, 1909 to 1918, was 114,774,487 gallons, valued at $7,565,055, In the same ten years the total quantities of other oils imported for consumption were: illuminating oils, 1,258,416 gallons, valued at $547,573; other products of petroleum, 60,514,243 gallons, valued at $7,811,057; crude petroleum, 1,167,480 gallons, valued at $90,630; lubricating oils, 39,969,676, gallons, valued at $5,426,824; and gasolene, 209,217,646 gallons, valued at $27,462,305. You are all familiar with gasolene, and it is not necessary for me to explain that it is an urgent need all the year round.

The total imports of petroleum products of all sorts in the last ten years amounted to 1,944,859,930 gallons at a declared value of $100,631,665. In the last 12 months the total imported was 387,982,714 gallons, and declared value $24,889,433.

These enormous sums of money were sent out of Canada to purchase oil that could be produced in our own country, both in Nova Scotia and in New Brunswick. It would seem, therefore, that I am justified in bringing this matter before the House in the way I am doing.

I will not trouble you with all the details, but I want to place on record a few statistics. Those enormous sums of money were sent out of the country because we had not risen sufficiently high in our ideas of investigation to show what could be done in this country. I was very glad to hear my friend on the other side of the House (Hon. Sir James Lougheed) say that the Government were considering what could be done in the future. We have to make up for all that vast expenditure we are now putting out and for our war losses, and we must assist as far as possible new industries in. this country in order that the returned soldiers may be provided with The total quantity of oil, coal and suitable occupation. Therefore if you conkerosene, distilled, purified or refined, sider these figures you will realize that an imported for consumption for the ten fiscal immense saving of money could be effected. Imports of bituminous coal, anthracite coal and petroleum and petroleum products into Canada during the twelve months ending December 31, 1916 and 1917 The following record of imports has been compiled from the unrevised monthly reports of Trade and Navigation, published by the Department of Customs. Imports of Coal.

I have also a report which I received yesterday from the Commissioner of Customs, who has very kindly supplied me with data for 10 years respecting the quantities imported.

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